tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post6490949622125353019..comments2024-02-29T06:08:21.922-05:00Comments on Rose Colored Glasses: What if you want to be a lawyer?Rose, Esq.http://www.blogger.com/profile/14114084736152617861noreply@blogger.comBlogger39125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-188353503579297792013-02-27T03:58:20.332-05:002013-02-27T03:58:20.332-05:00Thanks!
I enjoy seeing websites that understand th...Thanks!<br />I enjoy seeing websites that understand the value of providing a prime resource for free. I truly loved reading your post.Washington DC Lawyer Jobshttp://www.bcgsearch.com/legalmarketsinfo.php?id=31noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-80033494777776059022011-08-28T18:56:03.946-04:002011-08-28T18:56:03.946-04:00@6:27 -- Hard to come up with a hard and fast rule...@6:27 -- Hard to come up with a hard and fast rule, but I would say that it is not advised to have more than $50,000 COMBINED law school and undergraduate debt. That's just off the top of my head. There might be an exception, such as someone who already has a bit of undergraduate debt and then gets into Yale Law School. Yale is probably still a safe bet. But if you are looking for a bright line rule, $50K combined.Rose, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14114084736152617861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-53482422511859713902011-08-28T18:27:18.237-04:002011-08-28T18:27:18.237-04:00Rose,
At what amount of student loan debt do you b...Rose,<br />At what amount of student loan debt do you believe cost should become the larger factor in making the decision to go to law schoolAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-36534883589189286522011-08-23T00:47:03.021-04:002011-08-23T00:47:03.021-04:00I am "self employed anon" and back for t...I am "self employed anon" and back for this reason only. I have a challenge for my apparently "esquired/ticketed" but unemployed, and, by my estimate, unemployable-because-of-your-lack-of-work ethic brethren. Would you be willing to come on radio/TV with me to debate this? I will shortly be re-entering the broadcast medium after a 1 year absence and would love to discuss, and take audience participation on those things discussed on this blog. Rose? It's your blog. Are you willing to own your opinions? How about the others. Unfortunately, there will be a 17 second delay so some of your more inarticulate and offensive comments won't make it on air. Any takers? If so, I will provide contact information.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-35551664351091606102011-08-12T16:09:26.019-04:002011-08-12T16:09:26.019-04:00Today's my day off! LOL!!!Today's my day off! LOL!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-78244422230703988162011-08-12T12:44:29.930-04:002011-08-12T12:44:29.930-04:00LOL - really? It isn't about ANYTHING other t...LOL - really? It isn't about ANYTHING other than wallowing in my self-pity? Generally, I am a very happy person. This particular topic gets me very riled up and that is why I have a blog focused on it. Yes, I have time to monitor and post to this blog. Apparently, so do you! I have 33 posts on this blog in a little over a year. There may be things that are hindering me from finding a job, but this blog is not one of them.<br /><br />But if the things that I am writing are so distasteful to you, leave! No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to leave patronizing comments to people. You have a job you claim to love. Get to work!Rose, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14114084736152617861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-38474789478175899862011-08-12T06:20:04.442-04:002011-08-12T06:20:04.442-04:00To Rose, Esq....you've just proven the point t...To Rose, Esq....you've just proven the point that "self-employed" made. The "real" Esquires on this post were only trying to give you some ideas that might work in your quest to find gainful employment. Why you ask? Because they are living proof of what does work vs. what doesn't. What's that you say? You don't want to participate in an unpaid internship? Fine! No problem! It's only one method to finding a job. Obviously, you're too busy doing other time-consuming things for FREE like monitoring and posting to this blog. You're clearly too busy to do anything else that might actually land you a job, so keep up the good work. You can remain respectfully unemployed.<br /><br />Your blog isn't about anything more than wallowing in your own self-pity! Oh and useless name calling too! So have at it and enjoy the rest of being miserable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-84627431245605567582011-08-12T03:34:26.697-04:002011-08-12T03:34:26.697-04:00@Self-employed anonymous -- Your obstinate insiste...@Self-employed anonymous -- Your obstinate insistence on sticking with the idea that because people do not wish to volunteer their services they are somehow unwilling to work leads me to believe that you are either a) a complete troll who is just trying to get a rise out of people or b) insane. I am not saying that as a personal, malicious attack. I mean it very literally. Trying to convince people facing huge loan payments that they should be willing to work for free is, as you say, a lost cause. You say you are a profitable attorney. I assume that means that you have some awareness of the value of time. Does commenting on a blog to a bunch of so-called lost causes constitute a good use of your time?<br /><br />If you are truly trying to help, I thank you for your efforts, however misguided. I suspect, however, that you are just being a jackass. Your comments will not be missed.Rose, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14114084736152617861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-22146118845268413762011-08-12T01:52:56.456-04:002011-08-12T01:52:56.456-04:00I am "self employed anon"- To my co-cou...I am "self employed anon"- To my co-counsel single mom, please join me in abandoning these lost causes. I'm looking back at my posts and I am embarrassed by my conduct. I initially posted to these/this blog in an naive attempt to help these kids. The initial posts were suggestions on how to get hired. I should know as they worked for me and I'm now semi-retired in under 20 yrs. of REAL hard work. I now volunteer and sit on the board of many non-profits that help high school kids, college kids and law school students. Unfortunately, you guys are so filled with hate and are woefully unprepared (read: unwilling) to work and participate in the real world (law related or not). I made a mistake. But, as the attacks on us (who initially tried to help you) became more personal over time, I fought back. That was wrong. Good luck guys. You will fail. You cannot have the attitude you have and be successful at ANYTHING.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-5806439521079223032011-08-11T11:11:11.646-04:002011-08-11T11:11:11.646-04:00Dear Anonymous 8-10-11 (9:38pm),
You are really s...Dear Anonymous 8-10-11 (9:38pm),<br /><br />You are really starting to crack me up pretending as if you don't know there are several different lawyers responding to this blog. I will humor you briefly and acknowledge that my posts are the "Single mom who went to law school, and actually WANTED to be a lawyer, and LOVES practicing law." You can find them dated and time stamped at 7-25-11 (12:02pm), 8-10-11 (2:17pm) and 8-10-11 (5:40pm). <br /><br />Despite the fact that your posts make no sense whatsoever, I must say they are entertaining. Allow me to let you in on a little secret...you can't be a single mother and have a spouse at the same time! LOL!!! Although it would have been nice to have that financial support to back me up during school, it just didn't work out that way. I think the word starts with a "d." The point is, I didn't let that stop me from pursuing my goals in life. I knew the costs involved in going to law school and I agreed to pay them, despite the dollar amount, because its what I needed to do to become a lawyer. Currently, I owe $98,000.00 in student loan debt that I consolidated for a lower interest rate/payment, but I also own two homes and three cars. And I still have money left over for savings, and vacations, and my son's college education, and shopping, etc. Things that I might not be able to do or afford had I not gone to law school and worked for "free" doing those unpaid internships. I'm just saying... <br /><br />With that said, let me be clear...I NEVER called anyone on this blog lazy, unmotivated, or incapable! What I did say is stop your friggin' whining! Life is hard! Especially in tough economic times. So, suck it up!!! Pick something that you can do with your life and be happy with your choice! Don't bash the practice of law because you didn't make the cut!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-26911479327009410602011-08-11T00:10:36.402-04:002011-08-11T00:10:36.402-04:00No- I'll call my "self employed-anonymou...No- I'll call my "self employed-anonymous" from now on so no confusion. Employed by myself. I'm the one that took about 7 yrs. to actually turn the corner with my own firm. The other atty is supporting my argument. A few of you are not articulate enough to argue and, instead, demonstrate with obscenities why I would never hire you and you will most likely go to your grave with your student loan debt. Nice guys.<br />I graduated with $115,000 in student loan debt in '94. I WISH I was single when I graduated b/c then I would not have had to put my wonderful wife through the pain of paying off my non-student loan debt (I wish I had filed BK). my wife was making about $40k/yr. Pretty rich, huh? <br />Seriously, you guys are AMAZING!!!!!! I agree with you that lawschool is a big scam that is merely a hazing process. But, once you have your ticket YOU are in control of whether you make money or not.<br />There is NO substance to any of these replies other than: "I will not work for free". OK. Then you will not work at all in the legal field. Oh, I'm sorry, some of you have non-legal jobs. Great. Next time I see you then I'll ask you to "supersize it" for me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-22738192921871708252011-08-10T21:38:36.367-04:002011-08-10T21:38:36.367-04:00August 10, 2011 5:40 PM
Again, congratulations ...August 10, 2011 5:40 PM <br /><br />Again, congratulations on having someone able to support you while you worked for free to learn the trade (I refuse to see law as a "profession" because professions regulate themselves and don't pump out twice as many grads as the market will bear).<br /><br />Anyway, just because some people are lucky enough to have the LUXURY of working for free does not mean everyone has that same luxury. Some people are on their own in this world and bill collectors pound at the door. <br /><br />Because some people don't have the economic capability of taking on unpaid internships while some other unfortunate soul supports them does not mean they are lazy, unmovited, incapable or any of the other useless projections you choose to throw out at them. If that worked for you, great, but don't come on here and attack others who don't have this option.<br /><br />Are you the same person who posted the following excerpts from up above?<br /><br />"It took me ~7 yrs. to make enough $$ so my spouse could stay at home and not work." August 10, 2011 1:14 AM <br /><br />and <br /><br />"I worked a paying job as well to put food on the table for me and my son. Yes, I was a single mother." August 10, 2011 5:40 PM <br /><br />If so, I am just curious. Because it seems on the one hand, you had a spouse working to support the household, something many of us do not have in order that we may intern "for free" somewhere, and on the other hand, we have the "single mother" struggling alone thing, judging by the second posting.<br /><br />Which would be you? Or am I mistaken and you did not write both posts? Then, I am truly puzzled as you seem to be responding as if you did.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-2609693444716291752011-08-10T17:56:33.144-04:002011-08-10T17:56:33.144-04:00Young people don't realize how stifling to lif...Young people don't realize how stifling to life plans having six figures of student loan debt really is.<br /><br />It's far, far worse than a mortgage, which most young people think of as a huge ball and chain.<br /><br />Guess what, you can walk away from a mortgage. In California, you simply walk. In other states that have recourse, you can still walk, but you'll have to take a pitstop at the bankruptcy court. In either case, you're done and out in less than six months.<br /><br />There's no walking on student loan debt. Sallie Mae just sits there, waiting to snatch any money that falls into your hands.<br /><br />Want to start a business? Sorry, need a job to pay those loans.<br /><br />Want to travel? Sorry, need a job to pay those loans.<br /><br />Want to stay home and have kids? Sorry, need a job to pay those loans.<br /><br />Want to work on your novel/software/play/art? Sorry, need a job to pay those loans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-56926096590199841212011-08-10T17:40:11.556-04:002011-08-10T17:40:11.556-04:00Anonymous at 4:10pm, you are so misled. I graduat...Anonymous at 4:10pm, you are so misled. I graduated from law school in 2002, not 1973. And I don't think I'm entitled to my six figure salary. I worked by butt off for it!!! If you are employed, that's great! I hope that it is a job that you are happy with because you sound like a miserable person. All the unneccessary profanity and name calling is juvenile and further proof that your problems are bigger than what can be solved on this blog. It's also proof of why you probably wouldn't make a good lawyer anyway. A good lawyer takes the good with bad. You clearly have issues with that aspect of life and, therefore, will always have difficulty dealing with things when they don't go your way. No one is asking you to work for free. But we are asking you to stop expecting something for nothing. During my unpaid internships, which were 20 hour/week jobs, I worked a paying job as well to put food on the table for me and my son. Yes, I was a single mother. NOTHING was handed to me...ever!!! My internships were stepping stones to get to the level of law that I WANTED to practice. I didn't want to be singer, or a nurse, or an engineer. I didn't want to be an actress, or a hairdresser, or a bartender. I WANTED to be a lawyer and I was willing to do what it took to become one. You can keep whining over the poor choices you made in the past, or you can accept the life you created for yourself and move forward. If that means working at the local department store, and you're happy, then more power to you.<br /><br />And to you Rose, for every person who is on the fence about law school that you deter from my profession, I applaud you. The last thing we need or want are disgruntled JD's. Like it or not, in life and in death, from adoptions to wills and estates, sooner or later, everyone needs a lawyer. The good news is, true advocates like me will be there ready and waiting to help. I do wish you the best in whatever endeavor you choose to pursue. I'm just glad it's not law!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-48681507151965106932011-08-10T16:10:21.787-04:002011-08-10T16:10:21.787-04:00August 10, 2011 2:17 PM
Unfortunately, the shills...August 10, 2011 2:17 PM<br /><br />Unfortunately, the shills, trolls and law school apologists think they will jump freely between the concept of wanting to be employed, and wanting a "six-figure" job right out of law school. We are talking about the need to be fucking EMPLOYED after law school,in the field, at a subsistence level at minimum. YOU GUYS, likely paid shills for the law school industrial complex who graduated in 1973 or something while dodging the draft, are injecting this "six-figure, entitlement" red herring.<br /><br />You can shove your "working for free" up your collective Boomer asses. I have a job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-45159438087115378592011-08-10T15:10:00.130-04:002011-08-10T15:10:00.130-04:00join forgivestudentloandebt.com facebookjoin forgivestudentloandebt.com facebookAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-60819125797700916212011-08-10T14:52:56.266-04:002011-08-10T14:52:56.266-04:00You can criticize my actions or decisions all you ...You can criticize my actions or decisions all you want; Lord knows I have certainly criticized my own decisions many times on this blog. But I can't change the past. My goal is to keep people from making the same mistake I did. Or at the very least to encourage people to think about the possible repercussions of their decisions one way or the other. And while the high cost of tuition does bother me, the law schools did not create the bad job market. What they do is misrepresent their employment and starting salary data, and that is indefensible.Rose, Esq.https://www.blogger.com/profile/14114084736152617861noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-19667209644621961422011-08-10T14:17:49.800-04:002011-08-10T14:17:49.800-04:00Hi! First, I would like to state that I am the on...Hi! First, I would like to state that I am the one who posted "You should go to law school if you WANT to be a lawyer" on July 25, 2011 at 12:02pm. Second, Anonymous who posted on 8-10-11 at 1:14am, I wanted to tell you that you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! These guys have serious "entitlement" issues and trying to reason with them is pointless. I cannot think of one degree seeking program in ANY field that GUARANTEES their students a full-time job making a six figure salary! And I don't know why anyone would think that going to law school is a guaranteed route to financial success. <br /><br />Are there financially successful lawyers practicing everyday? Absolutely. I'm one of them. Did we have guarantees that we would be financially successful from our law schools. Uh, I think not. We worked our butts off in school and out of school and we did what it took to become successful. I had two unpaid internships so that I could put those jobs on my resume. One was a law firm, the other, a government agency. And it was the smartest thing I ever did because those jobs put me in contact with some people I might otherwise have never met. <br /><br />If you have a crappy degree, admit it and deal with it. Accept that you chose a degree in basket weaving or some other foolishness and understand that you might not make more than $25,000.00 a year. Don't go to law school to make up for having a crappy degree. Don't go to law school because your parents want you to! And definitely don't go to law school because you read a article in a magazine that said lawyers make a lot of money. Those are just stupid reasons to go to any school, not just law school. <br /><br />The minute Rose knew she didn't want to be a laywer, (i.e., after her 2nd year), she should have walked away. There is no shame in that. The real shame is that she sent in her seat deposit and took away a spot from someone who truly wanted to be a lawyer when her heart was clearly never in it in the first place! Now that is what pisses me off! And then, to top it all off, she incurred an entire third year's worth of debt for the sake of saying she finished the program only to turn around and bash the law school for the cost of attending, which she agreed to pay. And now you want to scream it wasn't worth it. That's just buyer's remorse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-3331390507821627362011-08-10T13:25:21.671-04:002011-08-10T13:25:21.671-04:00^ My sentiments exactly. I'm glad you have a...^ My sentiments exactly. I'm glad you have a job. But seeing as though you have litigated "hundreds" of cases, you likely graduated many years ago when tuition was low(er) and when opportunities were more plentiful.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-48471556695823610942011-08-10T13:13:17.112-04:002011-08-10T13:13:17.112-04:00August 10, 2011 1:14 AM
No, your are definitely N...August 10, 2011 1:14 AM<br /><br />No, your are definitely NOT my boss, and I am happily employed outside law. Once again, toilet bowl law school dean, go shill elsewhere.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-38908895291437134872011-08-10T13:10:29.684-04:002011-08-10T13:10:29.684-04:00"What makes you ENTITLED to a job by your bei..."What makes you ENTITLED to a job by your being a licensed atty? Interning has NOTHING to do with whether you have your ticket or not. DO YOU WANT A JOB OR NOT? Apparently the answer is "NO". <br />August 9, 2011 2:45 AM"<br /><br />I don't, and never have, felt entitled to anything. But I am also not working for ANYONE for free. News flash: it is possible, possible that is, to want to make a living while not feeling "entitled." What's this "work for free" bullshit about? How can you support and feed a family, and responsibly pay your bills, while working for free? Wealthy parents, perhaps? Must be nice. <br /><br />Fuck law. I now work, successfully, wholly outside the field. Not missing it. Thanks for the caring posts, but please shill elsewhere. Are you employed by one of these toilet bowls?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-72794918747276362622011-08-10T01:14:17.541-04:002011-08-10T01:14:17.541-04:00where to start- This thread demonstrates why you ...where to start- This thread demonstrates why you (collectively) are unemployed. I went to a (if I understand your lingo) a 4th tier school that is referred to derisively as the "Harvard of the West". I incurred $120k+ in loans. But in school and after I volunteered with every lawyer who would have me to learn the trade. Some of these guys are now in jail for their tactics, some are names you guys probably worship.<br />No one is "entitled" to a job. THAT"S THE POINT. You have to earn the right to work via education, experience, who you know, proving yourself, etc.<br />20 years ago you could not, anymore than you can today, open up a solo and make $$. It took me ~7 yrs. to make enough $$ so my spouse could stay at home and not work. You don't start a solo by borrowing money and going further into debt. That's just plain stupid. Unfortunately, you guys have learned the hard way that debt does not equal wealth.<br />No clue how the legal industry works? I've litigated hundreds of cases and hired and fired dozens in my firm (hundreds in my professional life). And you know what? I haven't sworn at you or used foul language. Really?<br />Here's my question for you all. What ARE you going to do? They are rioting in the rest of the world over the lack of jobs and opportunities. Are you going to do something? Or hide behind "anonymous" and post to a blog hoping "something" happens? B4 you point at me, I have a job. I'm the boss.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-15175183117607558012011-08-09T08:30:36.783-04:002011-08-09T08:30:36.783-04:00And another thing, I've already tried the solo...And another thing, I've already tried the solo thing. It was a massively underfunded endeavor. That's something you're not taking into account. Maybe 20 years ago you could easily go solo right out of law school, but today, when some students have racked up nearly $200,000+ in debt (a conservative figure IMO), it's not feasible. I suppose you think they can just go to a bank and ask for a business loan to start a practice. I'm still of the opinion that you really have no clue how the legal industry operates. It's like talking to my ignorant mother who would suggest that I walk into a firm and hand deliver my resume to show them my go-getter attitude.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-72124677941540310462011-08-09T08:23:59.977-04:002011-08-09T08:23:59.977-04:00You sound like an industry shill to me. In the al...You sound like an industry shill to me. In the alternative, you're some ivy league fuck that had everything handed to them on a silver platter and can't understand how the rest of the world operates.<br /><br />Your points are unclear. Why don't you ask the millions of unemployed people in this country whether they are "entitled" to a job. Yet, the majority of these people didn't go $100,000+ in debt to get their job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6019808636238280118.post-59890222184766675992011-08-09T02:45:14.628-04:002011-08-09T02:45:14.628-04:00OK- I'll bite. From the responses it doesn&#...OK- I'll bite. From the responses it doesn't surprise me that the pass rate for the CA bar is about 30-40%. Sooooo, instead of going to a solo/medium firm and saying "Let me prove to you that I am invaluable" (and then actually doing so) for free for a period of time to be determined by you (and then securing a job), you would rather sit at home and circle gripe with the rest of this $100k+ student loan group? <br />What makes you ENTITLED to a job by your being a licensed atty? Interning has NOTHING to do with whether you have your ticket or not. DO YOU WANT A JOB OR NOT? Apparently the answer is "NO". <br />As far as "no clue how the legal profession works", I'm trying to figure out how to disclose my ID without suffering the false YELP reviews that will follow from the trolls. . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com